So on the
sonic and pals forum I've created a
topic in which inquiring young minds can ask questions, others can answer and then everyone can discuss. This sounds like a genuinely good idea that should have no hitches, with the exception of emotionally charged topics.
One problem though
The sonic and pals forum and website is a fundamentalist christian website... (Ok I'm a bit of a shit disturber, but I like to initiate critical thought...)
So basically I had a question on life after death and I basically explained my views. Which are that I don't know what happens after death but I assume that I will experience it the same way I experienced whatever before I was born. I then went on to explain that other cultures and ideas about such thing exist, and that often death is feared and they find ways to deal with that.
Now the second problem, there is a user who is commonly called DZelda (Real name Donald Aubin), who absolutely hates me and everything to do with secularism and atheism. It doesn't matter what I say, he will jump on it and attack it. Knowing full well that this website is very much biased toward fundie xtians, I am very careful on my wording of statements and how I explain their own faults (For an all loving people, they are very quickly offended and attack very easily.)
So without further ado I will post what I consider to be relevant discussions, spanning multiple posts, from there you can decide how I should respond or even discuss your opinions on the matter.
Basically I had replied to another user this about why people fear death.
Pem says:
@Bagel's Squish
The reason I think most people don't enjoy talking about death, is that they both fear it, as well as the unknown events that may occur after that. Nothing is more absolute than death so people avoid talking about it. It's odd in our society actually, many other cultures have no problem talking about death, especially ancient ones such as the Egyptians and Greeks. I'm not entirely sure what separates us from them. However, Christianity is one of the few belief systems which offers punishment after life. Most other belief systems just have the afterlife as the afterlife. Nothing even close to the concept of hell mind you.
Personally, I though my post was reasonable. I tried to stick with the facts and avoided things I was unsure of. This is where DZelda popped in and he replied.
DZelda says:
You have little basis for that argument as you dont believe in that system enough to really look into it, as you are athiest and have no belief in God. You also forgot the realm of eternal bliss known as heaven. If youd like to shoot my bias out of the way and get down to hardcore religious speaking though, then Im sure Cody can come in here and wave his finger at us and close the thread, with a hut tut and a warning or three thrown in. Human.
Personally my load in life is to show humankind what they have done wrong, and to effectively change them for the better. Through wisdom attained by God (a God which Pem has no acess to because hes an athiest [atheist]) this is attainable rather interestingly and has launched me on a very interesting spiritual hourney [journey], one which I am sad pem will never undertake, because he simply doesnt have the scope to see whats real and what isnt. (due to his mind being clouded by belief in nothing) :P Possibly hypocrisy there on my part, but then again, someone has to be right, and I dont see God having a recorded track record of fail. (please do go into the book and start throwing inefficiencys at me kind sir, and I will start throwing prophecies at you.) :P )
Please note, I did not edit his grammar, nor his spelling. The square bracketed words are what I think he meant, added only when the message was unclear.
For some back information Cody is one of the administrators of the forum. He is more or less secular but with an understanding for those who are religious.
Now this is how I replied, I've added his responses to what I said as well. As you can read in the original link, I had to decipher this as it turns out he has no understanding of editing and formatting his responses. I wanted to change the subject as well by introducing a new question to be discussed.
Pem says:
As usual DZ feels the need to troll me, however this is an intellectual discussion so I will address his points. Mind you if you continue to attempt to derail the discussion we will promptly ignore you.
DZ Quote:
You have little basis for that argument as you dont believe in that system enough to really look into it, as you are athiest and have no belief in God.
Pem says:
A person does not have to have belief in Horus and the Egyptian Gods to understand what people believed regarding them. In simple terms you don't have to believe it to understand it.
DZ responds:
True.
DZ Quote:
You also forgot the realm of eternal bliss known as heaven. If youd like to shoot my bias out of the way and get down to hardcore religious speaking though, then Im sure Cody can come in here and wave his finger at us and close the thread, with a hut tut and a warning or three thrown in. Human.
Pem says:
This is just plain trolling, you want to get this shut down however, this is a topic for questioning and debate. You are more then welcome to your opinions, and I welcome you to discuss them, however, by presenting them you allow them to be scrutinized and picked apart.
DZ responds:
Cut to the chase.
DZ Quote:
Personally my load in life is to show humankind what they have done wrong, and to effectively change them for the better. Through wisdom attained by God (a God which Pem has no acess to because hes an athiest) this is attainable rather interestingly and has launched me on a very interesting spiritual hourney, one which I am sad pem will never undertake, because he simply doesnt have the scope to see whats real and what isnt. (due to his mind being clouded by belief in nothing)
Possibly hypocrisy there on my part, but then again, someone has to be right, and I dont see God having a recorded track record of fail. (please do go into the book and start throwing inefficiencys at me kind sir, and I will start throwing prophecies at you.)
)
Pem says:
Good for you, it is a good thing in life to have goals. I politely disagree with your point about perceiving what is and isn't reality. I have made it my life goal to examine such things, using the scientific method. However, to attack someone when making a statement is known as an ad hominom. It is a logical fallacy that basically equates to this.
Speaker 1: This is my point.
Speaker 2: I disagree with you, you are a doody head therefore you are wrong.
Speaker 1: Calling me names does not take away from my point, in fact you didn't address it at all.
DZ responds:
However, as factually based as the scientific method is, there are often points it canNOT address, such as the border between life and death, and what actually does happen post mortem to the persons soul itself, and just because they cant decipher it now, doesnt mean they will at some point. However, Darwinian Theory is only 400 years old as opposed to the Bibles 2000+ track record, and doing some bible study of my own, prophecies were usually spot on, despite differing authors of different parts of the books, and a history record that in my honest opinion is a miracle it even survived this long. However the point I make here is the scientific method isnt as well rooted in time as some other ways of fact finding, as far fetched or oddly driven from your methods they may be. As you may know, and have outlined it earlier, is the fact that in order to come to the best understanding of something, you must examine it in every way possible, even (I add my words here) if it may require methods differing from those based in strict testing basis.
All that aside, you are more then welcome to ask and answer questions as well as discuss the points presented by someone. You are however, not welcome to call someone names nor try to negate their argument using character attacks. Cody is an intelligent person, he knows when someone is trying to start a fight and when someone will have no part of it. In short, if you continue the verbal abuse I will report you. Attacking someone without reason and through emotion only is childish at best. Like I mentioned above, if you want to be mature about this, you are more then welcome to partake.
Now then, new question:
What are some pros and cons of a hierarchical society?
These are societies in which there are definitive classes which have authority over lower classes. Queens and Kings ruling over lords and everyone, and Lords ruling over peasants, for example.
DZ responds:
(Nothing, he didn't respond to the rest of the post, he completely ignored it.)
So basically, this is were the conversation stands. His post about science sounds good until you realize it is utter bullshit. There is no soul that can be defined in natural terms, even philosophy has largely dismissed the concept as a side product of human dualism. (The belief that the body and mind (soul) are two separate entities, it has been disproven with a better understanding of neurology).
He also argues that because the bible is older (than evolution), it is more authoritative. This is also utter bullshit. The idea that sins cause sickness is far older than germ theory, but do we respect the notion because it happens to be older? Yes, there are people who still believe that sin is the cause of sickness, so that belief persists even today. It doesn't mean it is correct though.
Funny how a talk about death has brought into discussion, Darwinism. He mentions that it is 400+ years old, for those of you counting at home it is 150 years old this year. So I guess we have to discount it even more because it's even younger than his assumption.
Anyways, tell me what you think. How should I respond to him acting the way he is. It's self-evident that he is a self-righteous bigot, and I have no need to explicitly point it out.
What's your view?
